听力课堂TED音频栏目主要包括TED演讲的音频MP3及中英双语文稿，供各位英语爱好者学习使用。本文主要内容为演讲MP3+双语文稿:如何在工作(和你的社区)中培养真正的多样性和包容性，希望你会喜欢！
【演讲者及介绍】Rosalind G. Brewer
星巴克首席运营官罗莎琳德·布鲁尔表示，当公司考虑到多样性和包容性时，他们往往会把重点放在满足指标上，而不是与不同背景的人建立关系。在与TED时事策展人惠特尼·彭宁顿·罗杰斯的这次亲切而广泛的对话中，布鲁尔邀请领导们重新思考如何创建一个真正包容的工作场所，并提出如何给董事会和社区带来真正的草根变革。
【演讲主题】如何在工作(和你的社区)中培养真正的多样性和包容性
How to foster true diversity and inclusion at work (and in your community)
【中英文字幕】
翻译者C. Cheng校对者Yolanda Zhang
Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Hi, Roz Brewer. Thanks so much for being with us today.
惠特尼·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：嗨，罗兹·布鲁尔。非常感谢你参与今天的谈话。
Rosalind Brewer: Thank you for having me.
罗莎琳德·布鲁尔：感谢你们邀请我。
WPR: We can just dive right in. We're right now in the last quarter of 2020, and I think that a lot of people would agree that we're in the midst of what's probably one of the largest reckonings around racial equity that we've had in this country in decades. And it's something that you've been such a vocal advocate for, both through your role at Starbucks and throughout your career of diversity and inclusion in the workplace. And so I'm curious just to hear from you to start off the conversation, what this moment means for DEI efforts, not just in corporate America but in business in general.
惠特妮：我们可以直接进入话题。我们现在进入了2020年的最后一个季度，我认为许多人都会同意，我们正身处于一个围绕种族平等而展开的考量之中，它也许是这个国家几十年来最大的考量之一。而这正是你一直在大力倡导的——不仅体现在你在星巴克的职务，也体现在你多元并蓄的职业生涯。所以在对话开始之前，我想先听听你的想法，当下这个时刻对于实现“多元、平等、包容”的行动意味着什么，不仅仅针对美国的公司，也包括整个商业界。
RB: You are right that this has made many of us that are in the corporate setting and beyond to rethink the position on diversity and inclusion in the workplace. You know, let me start the conversation about where are we actually in diversity and inclusion in the corporate setting, and I will tell you that this is actually putting a spotlight on the weaknesses and maybe the lack of forethought and intensity that we should always have maintained on this subject all along. One of the things that I think it's been highlighting for most of us is that our biggest opportunity is inclusion. Because, you know, I have heard the stories so many times about how there's no Black talent out there, no Latinx talent for these particular roles. The talent is out there. I will tell you that it's underdeveloped, because I think we have spent more time trying to reach numbers than we have changing our environment where people feel safe, where they feel they can come to work and be their whole self, give it everything they've got, be their natural self and be respected for it and applauded for it, and for people to recognize and appreciate their differences and understand that they're differences, and if they're included in the conversations, that they're just a better resource for the companies. So I think there's so much opportunity in the inclusion space, because we focus too much on meeting metrics.
罗莎琳德：不错。这让我们当中很多在企业以及其它环境中工作的人开始重新思考多元化与包容性在工作场所中所处的位置。首先，我想来谈谈在企业环境的多元化和包容性上，我们的现状如何。我想说，这就等于是聚焦在一些薄弱环节上，或许是缺少我们本应始终持有的，对这一问题的前瞻性和严肃关注。对我们大多数人而言，需要意识到的一个关键就是，包容性是我们最大的机遇。因为我己经多次听到人们说，我们如何缺乏黑人人才，如何缺乏满足某些特定职位需求的拉丁裔人才。人才是有的，但是没有得到充分的发展，因为，我认为我们把更多的时间花在了如何达到某个指标，而不是改变我们的环境，以使人们感到安全，感到他们可以来这里工作，同时充分保持自我；贡献他们的全部力量，保持自己的本性。同时能够受到尊重，获得掌声；人们能够认可并欣赏他们的差异，理解他们的不同之处；如果让他们融入到对话中来，他们将成为公司更优秀的资源。所以我认为，在包容性的空间里存在着非常多的机会，因为我们太专注于达成指标了。
WPR: And, you know, I think earlier this year when the protests began right after the death of George Floyd, we saw lots of organizations put out these statements of solidarity, these commitments to do more to be inclusive both in their workspace and for their customers and people who support their work. But then you also hear -- I've heard a lot of business leaders say things like, "You know, we want to do something but don't really know where to start." And so I'm curious to hear from you just sort of what do you think are ways that you actually can make a real difference when it comes to thinking about diversity and inclusion and avoid sort of this performative justice?
惠特妮：今年早些时候就在乔治·弗洛伊德死后不久，当抗议开始的时候，我们看到许多组织发表了声明以示声援，承诺要在包容性上做出更多努力，不仅在他们的工作场所，也针对他们的顾客和协助人员。但是，你也会听到——我听到了很多商业领袖说，比如：“我们想要做些什么，但是不知道该从何开始。”所以，我想听一下你的想法：当考虑到多元化和包容性的时候，哪些方法能让你真正有所作为，并避免这种仅在实施层面上做出的公正评判？
RB: Yes. So there's a few things that I think about in this space. First of all, when you think about an inclusive environment, you think about: Am I being heard? And most people with differences, they want to know that you are heard and that you are seen. And I really applaud the companies who have been spending time just putting themselves on a learning journey, you know, holding listening sessions, trying to make sure that we've got different viewpoints when big decisions are made. You know, there are some companies who are engaging their partner networks in ways that they've never done before. I think those are some early success factors that could lead us to different kinds of conversations. And I've been listening to a lot of my peers in different industries, and they're having their own personal aha moments, and they're actually checking themselves at the front door, saying, "I never thought," "I never knew," "I didn't know what I was doing when I said X, or when I did this." Right? And so I think it starts with some very simple things. I'd say that there are a lot of steps to take before training and development, that's for sure. So those that are jumping quickly into training and development, I'd say put a pause on it and just get back to grassroots and hold listening sessions and then decide, what do you want to do? And then help those people of diverse backgrounds engage in those conversations about how they want to see change happen. They're the best resource for a lot of this and a lot of these discussions. I mean, I learned so much. I have breakfast sessions with the baristas and partners at Starbucks regularly. I just had one yesterday, and when my screen popped up, I had nine diverse randomly selected partners. We call our employees "partners." And it was such a rich conversation, and they began to network while I'm talking to them, right, they were learning from each other. And this wasn't a diversity conversation. We were actually kicking off our new financial year at Starbucks, and so this was actually a business conversation and a touch-base to see how you're doing while we're working remotely. And, you know, it starts there with building relationships and learning people for who they are and engaging them and saying, "I see you, I hear you." That goes such a long way that I think if we do more of that, I even think the engagement and performance just goes through the roof.
罗莎琳德：好的。关于这个话题，我会考虑几件事。首先，当你考虑一个包容性的环境时，你会考虑：我的声音有没有被听到？每个人都是不同的，他们想知道你会被听到，被注意到。我真心要为那些公司鼓掌，他们花了很多时间来学习，举办意见听取会，试图确保在做出重大决定时，我们已经拥有了不同的视角。有一些公司正在以前所未有的方式与他们的合作网络保持接触。我认为这是一些初步的成功因素，它们可以将我们带到不同类型的对话中。我一直在倾听不同产业中许多同辈们的声音，他们有自己的顿悟时刻，他们其实是在自我反省：“我从来没想过”，“我从来不知道”，“当我说某些话，或者这样做的时候，我并不知道我在做什么。”所以，我认为应该从一些简单的事情入手。我说过，要在采取许多步骤之后，才能开始培训提高，这是肯定的。所以，对那些迅速跳到培训提高这一步的人，我要说，停下脚步，回到基层，先召开意见听取会，然后再决定你想做什么。然后去帮助那些具有不同背景的人参与到对话中，讨论他们希望看到怎样的改变。对于许多此类讨论来说，他们是最佳资源。我从中学到了很多东西。我会经常在星巴克与服务生和合作伙伴进行早餐会。我昨天刚刚开过一次。当我的屏幕弹出一个窗口——我有九个随机挑选的，背景多元的搭档。我们把雇员称为“搭档”。那是一次非常丰富多彩的对话。在我与他们谈话时，他们开始建立联系，相互学习。这并不是一个关于多元化的对话。我们其实正在开启星巴克的新财年，所以，这其实是一次商业谈话,也是为了保持联络，看一看当我们远程工作时，你的近况如何。它的起点是建立联系，了解他们是谁，与他们保持接触，并对他们说：“我注意到了你，听到了你的声音。”这会非常有帮助，我甚至认为，如果我们继续朝着这个方向推进，参与和业绩将会快速提升。
WPR: And so what I hear you saying, then, is that it's less about this short-term "how can I respond to this moment right now?" and it's more about long-term engagement with people and making this part of the fabric of how you do your work. And so I'm curious also to hear a little bit about, just, I guess if there is a timeline, when people think about how quickly they should be responding to protests and to what's happening in this cultural moment. What should we actually be looking at as far as when we see this change actually materialize and take effect?
惠特妮：那么你的意思是，它关系到的并不主要是短期的，“我该如何应对当前这一时刻？”而更多的是关于长期的与他人的密切联系，以及使其成为工作架构中的一部分。所以，我还想听一听这里是否有一个明确的时间线呢？比如，当人们考虑应该以多快的速度对抗议活动，对发生在这个文化危机时刻的事情做出响应。当我们见到这些变化被落实并产生效果时，我们应该期待些什么呢？
RB: Yes. So I think there are some short-term things. There are some really key partnerships in the communities around our localities that are really important to also engage in some of the listening and learning sessions as well. I learn tons from organizations like the Legal Defense Fund, from the NAACP, and engaging those partnerships that we've had over the years, but changing the discussion of the conversation about how do we partner together. Because one of the things that I fear for being a retailer like Starbucks and many other companies is that I want my partners to feel not only safe, comfortable, heard and seen in the company, I want them to have that same experience in the community. And so that's when it comes full circle. I really want diverse BIPOC employees to feel like, you know, "I make a difference." First of all, I vote every year. I'm engaged in my community. And then I'm engaged in work. So I have value. And so I think there are some key partnerships that should happen right now so that we can make sure that our employees feel like they have a full way to engage in this change that's underfoot right now.
罗莎琳德：我认为这里有些事是短期的。在我们所在地的社区中有一些非常关键的合作伙伴，如果他们也参与到某些意见听取及学习座谈会中，那也将是非常重要的。我从法律辩护基金会这样的组织那里学到了很多东西。还有全国有色人种协进会，我们与这些年来的合作伙伴保持着密切联系，但是在商谈讨论如何合作而时，我们做了一些改变。因为，让我担忧的一件事——作为一个零售商，比如星巴克及许多其它公司——那就是，我希望我的搭档不仅在公司里能感到安全舒适，他们的声音被人听到，受人注目，我还希望他们在社区里也有同样的经历。这就又转回到了原地。我真心希望非裔美国人、原住民、有色人种这些多元化的雇员们能够觉得：“我可以改善现状。”首先，我每年都会投票。我参与到了我的社区活动之中。我参与到了我的工作之中。我是有价值的。所以，我认为有一些关键性的伙伴关系应该立即建立，这样，我们就可以确保我们的雇员们感到他们可以充分参与到正在发生的变化之中。
WPR: And then I wonder, conversely, what sort of pitfalls have you seen business leaders fall into that are actually just not effective and are not supportive of efforts to be more inclusive and to diversify? What are some of the things that haven't worked?
惠特妮：反过来，我想知道，在你看来，商业领袖们犯了哪些错误，他们的决策既无效，也不支持为增强包容性和多元化而做的努力？有哪些事情被证明是无效的呢？
RB: Yeah, you know, I worry about the race for numbers, to meet numbers, because what you will find, I've found many times in my career, is that some of our best leaders have good intentions, but they don't understand. They don't understand the partner sitting next to them that looks different from them. And so I worry about when we race to numbers, because, you know what? The kind of country we live in, the world we live in, we all know how to make numbers work. What we don't know how to do is to build strong relationships that are lasting, that are valued. And I think that's where we need to start, is relationship-building and key partnerships. So I worry about the numbers base.
罗莎琳德：我担心的是，为了达到一个目标而在数字上进行的竞争，因为，如同我在职业生涯中多次发现的那样，你会看到一些最出色的领导者们有着好的意向，但是对一些事情并不了解。他们不了解那个坐在他们旁边，看上去与他们不同的搭档。所以，当我们在数字上竞争时，我会为此担心。因为，你知道吗？在我们生活的国家里，在我们生活的世界上，我们都知道如何让数字起作用。我们不知道的是，如何建立持久的，有价值的牢固关系。我认为这是我们需要开始着手的地方：关系建设，以及关键性的合作伙伴。所以，我担心的是底数。
WPR: And so, of course, I think we all remember a few years back, Starbucks had a very public issue. You were embroiled in that incident in Philadelphia around racial discrimination that led to Starbucks taking a step back and thinking about inclusion and implicit bias and racial sensitivity. So how did that experience help prepare you for this year, both as an individual business leader and then also as an organization? How did it help you approach what we've been experiencing in this country in the past few months?
惠特妮：当然，我想我们都记得几年前，星巴克遇到了一次公众事件，你们卷入了费城的一起种族歧视案件。它让星巴克退后了一步，开始思考关于包容性、隐性偏见和种族敏感性的问题。那段经历如何帮助你们为今年做好了准备，无论是就个体商业领导者，还是就组织而言？它如何帮助你们应对过去的几个月，我们在这个国家里所经历的一切？
RB: So, that was a real example of leadership and, actually, where Starbucks had failed in selecting the right leadership for that store. And to give you an example, the person that was running that store was a very young, up-and-coming leader for the company, and to put her in a store in 18th and Spruce in Philadelphia was an opportunity for all of us. So in retrospect, one of the reasons why we did the antibias training was to make sure that we began those conversations. And when I talk about not just training -- that training was very unique because it was self-engaged. They weren't being taught by an instructor. They had to have conversations with their peer baristas around diversity and inclusion amongst themselves. So it wasn't moderated by any leader in the company. It was self-instructive. And the conversations that were created once we had that kind of relationship-building -- you know, we had some of our baristas asking us, "Can I take this home and talk to my father, who never let me take the Black girl to the prom?" You know, we started what we felt like a movement and a discussion that we have been able to really use from that point on in terms of the way we want to escalate the conversations and make change happen at Starbucks, and not only at Starbucks but in our communities, because there were quite a few organizations that we reached out to that we're still engaged with today that are helping us build community leadership as well.
罗莎琳德：那是一个关于领导力的真实案例，其实也是星巴克在为该门店选择领导层上失败的地方。举个例子，运营那个门店的人是一个非常年轻，在公司里很有前途的领导者。把她派到位于费城第18街和云杉路的门店，对于我们所有人都曾是一个机会。所以，回想起来，我们进行反偏见培训的原因之一就是要确保这些对话得以展开。当我谈到不仅仅是培训时——这个培训非常特别，因为它的核心是自我参与，而不是由老师传授。他们必须与咖啡厅的同行们就多元化和包容性，在他们当中展开对话。所以，它并不受公司领导人员的审核。更多的是自我教育。一旦我们有了那样的关系建设，就会创造出那样的对话。我们有一些咖啡店的店员会问：“我可以把这套机制带回家，与我的父亲谈谈吗？他从来不让我带黑人姑娘去舞会。”我们感觉我们所开启的像是一场运动或讨论，我们可以真正地用它来升级对话以及在星巴克进行革新。不仅仅是在星巴克，也在我们的社区里，因为有不少我们接触到的，至今仍保持着密切联系的组织，帮助我们建立了社区领导层。
WPR: And is that the goal? I mean, you mentioning an employee who wanted to take their learnings home. Is the goal in thinking about how you approach these issues as an organization for your employees and your partners to see how they can move this beyond just their work life?
惠特妮：这是你们的目的吗？我是指，你提到了一位想把学到的东西带回家的雇员。作为一个组织，在考虑该如何为你的雇员和合作伙伴处理这些问题时，你们的目标是要看到他们如何将此延申到工作之外吗？
RB: Sure. You know, a lot of this starts at home. It starts with what happens at your dinner table. Right? And so we can correct what happens and we're responsible for what happens when you come to work at Starbucks, but we also realize that we can only get them ever so far, but if you're at the table having some conversations that are counter to what you're learning in the workplace, you can't help but slow down your growth and your change. And so a lot of the work that we do around diversity and inclusion is open-sourced. So when we created the materials for the work when we had the closing of our stores on May 28th, we had given that to so many other companies for them to use, and even we're doing some work right now around Courageous Conversations. And in this remote world, we're allowing our partners to bring their families onto the camera or listen in the room as we have courageous conversations on diversity. So if Starbucks has a keynote speaker on a certain diversity topic, we invite the family in. And it's been really, it's been great. A lot of our senior executives have said, "This is starting new conversations with my teens at home," who are either getting bullied ... These are changing the conversations about why we question some of the actions that we had around our house. And so we need to understand that to embrace this issue, it is not as small as numbers, it's not as small as just the workplace. It is very comprehensive. So we're trying to do something different here to change the conversations and then actually grow inclusion in a very, very grassroots way at Starbucks.
罗莎琳德：当然。许多这类对话都是在家里展开的，比如晚餐时间。所以，如果你来星巴克上班的话，我们可以对发生的事情进行纠正，并对其负起责任。但是，我们也认识到我们最多也只能做到这一步。但是，如果你在饭桌上的谈话与你在工作场所学到的东西相悖的话，你就不得不放慢你的成长与变化。所以，我们围绕多元化和包容性开展的许多工作都是开源的。所以，当我们为这项工作准备了培训材料，在5月28号关店的时候，我们把材料交给了许多其它公司使用。我们现在正在围绕“无畏交谈”开展工作。在这个远程世界里，我们允许我们的搭档把他们的家人带到摄像头前，或者，在房间里旁听我们就多元化而进行的“无畏交谈”。如果星巴克在某个多元话题上有一个主要发言人的话，我们会邀请家属参加。这是一段非常棒的经历。许多高级管理人员说过，“这让我在家里与我那青春期的孩子开始了新的对话。”不然他们就会被欺负......这些正在改变着我们的对话；它关系到我们为什么要对某些家庭活动进行质疑。所以，我们需要了解，如果要直面这个问题，不能狭隘地只盯着数字，也不能仅限于工作场所。它的适用范围是非常宽泛的。所以，我们在这里尝试着做一些不同的事情，以改变这些对话，并使包容性能够真正地以基层化的方式在星巴克得以发展。
WPR: And, of course, I would imagine as a Black woman and a business leader that these issues hit really close to home for you. And I'm curious just with your interactions with colleagues and counterparts at other organizations that perhaps there isn't that same level of investment because it isn't something that's as important personally. And I'm curious how you are able to begin those conversations with colleagues and counterparts who are in positions to bring about this sort of change in their own organizations or within Starbucks. How do you get them invested, and how do you, frankly, get them to care about this?
惠特妮：我可以想象，作为一位黑人女性和商业领导者，这些问题真切地触碰到了你的痛点。我很好奇地想了解，你与同事，与其它组织里的同僚之间的互动。也许，在其它组织里，并没有同水平的投入，因为,就个人而言，它没有同样的重要性。而且，我也很想知道你是如何与同事和同僚们开始这些对话的。毕竟他们有能力将这种变化引入到自己的组织或者星巴克的。你是怎么使他们投入这项工作中的？或者直白一点，你是如何让他们认真对待这件事的？
RB: Yeah, that's a very good question. So, I have two children. I have a daughter who is 17 and a son who is 25. And quite honestly, when that situation happened in our Starbucks stores back in 2018, my son was the same exact age as Donte and Rashon and looks a lot like them, by the way, and would have been sitting in the Starbucks dressed the same way they were. So that incident alone was deeply personal to me, actually made me grab my chest, right? Because I knew at any given moment my husband or my son could get pulled over, and I'd get that call in the middle of the night. So it's deeply personal for me, and what I try to do is I share stories, and I talk very openly about my family and what we do on the weekends and our holiday traditions and all of those things. And I have no issue with someone leaning over to me, maybe one of my white counterparts, saying, "I don't understand that. What are they talking about?" when they hear something that's a little bit different than their culture. And I'm wide open to explain and have those conversations, because I feel like I really want to be a conduit for that. I always tell everyone, no question's too small or too big. Even with everything that's going on right now in our environment around social unrest, I've gotten tons of calls from my white peers at different companies saying, "Roz, what do you think? What are you hearing? Help me out here." I'll drop everything, because if I can help, and I'll tell the story, and I think most people know if they've known me over the years. I'm pretty frank and outspoken. And I'll also tell them when they've really messed up and what they need to do about it. And so I think I want more Black leaders to feel just as confident in doing that. I see no risk in it. I do realize that it begins a new relationship with some people, and some people can't take the tough conversations, but it's time for tough conversations.
罗莎琳德：这是一个非常好的问题。我有两个孩子。女儿17岁，儿子25岁。坦率地说，当2018年我们的一个门店发生这件事时，我儿子正好与堂特和瑞尚（星巴克种族歧视事件当事人）同龄，而且这两个孩子看起来也很像他们。他也可能会坐在星巴克里，穿戴得和他们一样。所以，那次事件本身对我来说非常私人化,让我感到非常揪心和后怕。因为我知道在任何时刻，我的丈夫，或者我的儿子也可能会被质询，而我可能在半夜接到那个电话。所以，它对我来说非常私人化。我试图做的是分享这些故事。我非常公开地谈到我的家庭，以及我们在周末做的事情，还有我们的假日传统和所有这些事情。我不介意有人凑近我，也许是我的一位白人同僚，对我说：“我对那个完全不理解。他们在说些什么？“此时他们听到了一些与他们的文化稍许不同的事物。我会坦诚地加以解释并展开对话，因为我觉得我真的很想成为它的一条渠道。我常常对每个人讲，没有什么问题是过小或者过大。尽管当前我们的环境中发生了社会动荡我仍然接到了很多来自其它公司的白人同辈的电话，“罗兹，你是怎么想的？你听到了什么？给我解释一下。”我会放下一切事情，因为，如果我能帮上忙的话，我会讲述这个故事。而且大部分了解我的人都会知道，我非常坦率，直言不讳。当有人把事情搞砸了的时候，我也会直接告诉他们，并且指导他们接下来要怎么处理。我希望更多的黑人领导者在做这些事情时，能够感到同样自信。我不认为这里有任何风险。我确实意识到它开启了我与一些人的新的联系。有些人无法承受艰难的对话，但是，现在的确到了进行艰难对话的时候。
WPR: And, I mean, to that point, I imagine there are probably also people who, because these conversations are tough and uncomfortable, think maybe it's easier or better to just avoid having to do that and to have those conversations and discussions to stir the pot in some ways. And so what do you say to the people who think "Let's just try to lay low," and I've heard some of this, too, in this moment, "Let the moment pass so that we can get back to business as usual"?
惠特妮：针对这一点，我想象可能有人，因为这些对话既艰难又令人不快，而认为更简单或更好的做法是避免这么做，避免让这些对话和讨论加剧紧张局面。那么，你会对这样的人说些什么呢？他们认为：“让咱们试着低调一些。”我也听到过这样的一些说法，“就让这件事过去吧，好让我们尽快回到常态。”
（完整文稿见字幕）